Curse

horseradish · Apr 27, 2008, 07:48 PM // 19:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReZDoGG

You can also go 16 channelin

no.

Sup Rune = FAIL

whatever you gain from a sup rune is not worth the 75 health.

Only Necs can do that.

The only Superior Rune that's viable is Vigor.

Dr Strangelove · Apr 27, 2008, 08:26 PM // 20:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by horseradish

no.

Sup Rune = FAIL

whatever you gain from a sup rune is not worth the 75 health.

Only Necs can do that.

The only Superior Rune that's viable is Vigor.

Actually, you do get some out of proportion bonuses by adding those last couple points with essence strike and offering.

With essence strike, A 16 spec nets 5 energy, while a 14 spec nets 3. That amounts to a 66% increase in efficiency, so it's not a bad deal at all.

With offering of spirit, a 16 spec nets 13 energy, while a 14 spec nets 11, for roughly a 20% increase in power.

You're correct that for most skills, adding a couple points on top amounts to around a 6% increase per point, which isn't worth the health loss. Offering of spirit doesn't require it, but you get a very good return on investment there. Essence strike becomes so much better that it's almost certainly worth running the sup rune.

If you're using a ton of spirits for whatever reason, a sup rune is also an easy choice, for the same reason minion masters always have a sup rune - adding levels to your summoned creatures makes them exponentially more powerful.

horseradish · Apr 27, 2008, 09:10 PM // 21:10

You do have a point there, Doctor.

Never realized the similarities between MMs and Spirit Spammers...

ReZDoGG · Apr 27, 2008, 10:39 PM // 22:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by horseradish

no.

Sup Rune = FAIL

whatever you gain from a sup rune is not worth the 75 health.

Only Necs can do that.

The only Superior Rune that's viable is Vigor.

I also use superior runes for all headpieces on my characters, but only major runes for my heros (as for only minor vigor). If your not a newb, you can get away with the -75 health, especially being able to afford sup vigors on all chars... plus hp bonuses from weapons, except for most caster staffs/wands/offhands. If you are a caster, the -75hp don't do much since you will be at a distance, and if you are melee the -75hp don't do much either cause you usually have +30hp to +60hp from your weapons. If you have a good monk or two, or three (to be safe), your all set for healing and protection. so all in all, sup runes are worth the extra damage, energy gain, and other benefits, plus it leaves room for more points for other attributes as well if you were to put your main attribute down one or two points. Even using two major runes will be good for some builds...

So if you can't handle the -75hp, that = fail. And there is a reason why it is possible to get 16 att points in any mastery for your primary profession... 1 attribute point can make quite the difference in alot of areas. And I ain't scared to run -75hp runes

horseradish · Apr 27, 2008, 11:52 PM // 23:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReZDoGG

I also use superior runes for all headpieces on my characters, but only major runes for my heros (as for only minor vigor). If your not a newb, you can get away with the -75 health, especially being able to afford sup vigors on all chars... plus hp bonuses from weapons, except for most caster staffs/wands/offhands. If you are a caster, the -75hp don't do much since you will be at a distance, and if you are melee the -75hp don't do much either cause you usually have +30hp to +60hp from your weapons. If you have a good monk or two, or three (to be safe), your all set for healing and protection. so all in all, sup runes are worth the extra damage, energy gain, and other benefits, plus it leaves room for more points for other attributes as well if you were to put your main attribute down one or two points. Even using two major runes will be good for some builds...

So if you can't handle the -75hp, that = fail. And there is a reason why it is possible to get 16 att points in any mastery for your primary profession... 1 attribute point can make quite the difference in alot of areas. And I ain't scared to run -75hp runes

It's not that I can't handle less hp (trust me, i can handle it XP), it's that it's generally stupid to have very little health. Enemy AI targets people with the lowest hp and armor. Also, you shouldn't only be relying on your monks. Heroes and henchies are generally stupid, and you'd be hard pressed to find a decent monk in PvE.

More health means more defense, which means less chance of dying. There will plenty of times where that 75 health could have prevented DP.

Perhaps I'm too influenced by PvP standards, but, aside from MMs and Spirit spammers (and the random Orders necro), less health = fail.

More often than not, less health will make things more difficult, and inconvenient, than it needs to be.

Dr Strangelove · Apr 28, 2008, 12:03 AM // 00:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReZDoGG

I also use superior runes for all headpieces on my characters, but only major runes for my heros (as for only minor vigor). If your not a newb, you can get away with the -75 health, especially being able to afford sup vigors on all chars... plus hp bonuses from weapons, except for most caster staffs/wands/offhands. If you are a caster, the -75hp don't do much since you will be at a distance, and if you are melee the -75hp don't do much either cause you usually have +30hp to +60hp from your weapons. If you have a good monk or two, or three (to be safe), your all set for healing and protection. so all in all, sup runes are worth the extra damage, energy gain, and other benefits, plus it leaves room for more points for other attributes as well if you were to put your main attribute down one or two points. Even using two major runes will be good for some builds...

So if you can't handle the -75hp, that = fail. And there is a reason why it is possible to get 16 att points in any mastery for your primary profession... 1 attribute point can make quite the difference in alot of areas. And I ain't scared to run -75hp runes

Most people can handle reduced health perfectly fine most of the time. However, even the best players die sometimes, and health is the best way to prevent that. If it's an extremely hard area, that health becomes very valuable as protection against DP. Would you prefer to build for the easiest areas where you'll never die, or the hardest ones that push your abilities to the limit?

Sup runes don't instantly fail, you just need to check to see if they're worth it. A good rule of thumb is to check for breakpoints that add an inordinate amount of power for extra attribute points. The essence strike on above is a perfect example. In general, most skills don't have weird breakpoints, so you should default to using minor runes. However, be aware of your skills, and don't be afraid to eat the -75 health if you can get a valuable benefit out of it.

Also, I hate the argument that the +60 health on your weapon compensates for the -75 from the sup rune. It doesn't compensate for anything, you're still losing 75 health, there's no magic amount of health that makes things work perfectly. For a damage attribute, you don't drop it down to 8 then use runes to push it back up to 12, you push that sucker as high as possible.

MasterSasori · Apr 28, 2008, 08:54 PM // 20:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by horseradish

no.

Sup Rune = FAIL

whatever you gain from a sup rune is not worth the 75 health.

Only Necs can do that.

The only Superior Rune that's viable is Vigor.

You're overgeneralizing a bit. The only time Superior Rune is FAIL is in PvP. It's perfectly viable to run in PvE; you just need to check whether or not running the rune is really worth it.

Joseph Spiritmaster · Apr 29, 2008, 01:28 AM // 01:28

If you have BloodSong and such, adding preservation is relativly un-needed.... Gaze isnt needed either for besides in CoF, EotN does not have many Spirits i agree with some of the other people, rethink the build... if your trying to go for a nice Rit Support, try one that uses Empathetic Removal or Expel Hexes, some wep spells such as Splinter, Put in BloodSong and Vampirism and your golden.

EDIT: Added... just reading above Post... If you want to run a good build, try Expel Hexes/Empathetic Removal and toss in a Sup Resto Rune and minor Spawning and im sure you can great a good healing build for rit.